1
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[hymn playing]

2
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[chorus singing in Latin]

3
00:01:14,607 --> 00:01:16,743
[woman, in German]

4
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[in Swedish]

5
00:03:50,930 --> 00:03:54,534
[woman narrating in German]

6
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,306
[in Swedish]

7
00:05:13,513 --> 00:05:19,052
[man, in Swedish]

8
00:05:58,191 --> 00:06:00,193
[classical music plays]

9
00:06:00,226 --> 00:06:02,729
-[Bergman, indistinct] -[actors chattering]

10
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[man, in Italian]

11
00:06:25,718 --> 00:06:30,056
[in English] You remember? That was in Venice, in '81.

12
00:06:30,089 --> 00:06:34,861
1981, when I got the Golden Lion.

13
00:06:34,894 --> 00:06:37,163
But you gave me the award.

14
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That was as if Ingmar, the master of me,

15
00:06:40,466 --> 00:06:42,902
stand behind you and he blessed me,

16
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and you were the messenger for me.

17
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I look like a messenger because I have faded somewhat.

18
00:06:49,208 --> 00:06:53,312
We look different than these on the red carpet today.

19
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-They are models, and I think the way-- -Yeah.

20
00:06:56,649 --> 00:06:59,986
We look like two happy girls.

21
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Yeah, absolutely. Happy girls.

22
00:07:03,156 --> 00:07:05,625
But you were only seven years an actress?

23
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Yeah, because it was not my-- my aim.

24
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I wanted to become a director.

25
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[laughter]

26
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I don't know how old I was when I saw Gycklarnas afton,

27
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but it made an incredible impression on me.

28
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A group of people, and they happen to be men, who are sitting there,

29
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on the mountain, watching,

30
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and the women swimming.

31
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No one has done that to me before,

32
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allowing me to see how easy it is to be in power,

33
00:07:43,062 --> 00:07:46,399
being on top, being in a flock,

34
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and some of them are leaders, and to be humiliated.

35
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[no audible dialogue]

36
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[Ullmann, in Swedish]

37
00:07:57,944 --> 00:08:00,580
[in English] I understood everything,

38
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and I wondered about the man who had made it.

39
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[no audible dialogue]

40
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I was doing a movie in '62 with Bibi Andersson.

41
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There was no hotel, and so where we did the movie--

42
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So Bibi and I, we shared a classroom.

43
00:08:16,696 --> 00:08:21,367
And then she got a letter from Ingmar Bergman while she was there.

44
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And she talked to me about Ingmar.

45
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She told me about the human being which was Ingmar.

46
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And I asked and asked, and she told and told.

47
00:08:31,711 --> 00:08:35,481
I met him on the street. I visited Bibi in Sweden.

48
00:08:35,515 --> 00:08:38,184
And he stopped and he talked with Bibi.

49
00:08:38,217 --> 00:08:43,055
And he knew who I was, because I had been an actress and done some films.

50
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-And he talked to her and he looked at me. -At you... Ah.

51
00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:49,028
And then he said-- And that was the beginning.

52
00:08:49,061 --> 00:08:51,230
That was the beginning because suddenly he said,

53
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"Would you like to be in a movie with me?"

54
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I said, "Yes."

55
00:08:56,269 --> 00:08:59,739
And he left, and Bibi said, "I never heard him say that before."

56
00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:06,279
[von Trotta] When I saw Persona--

57
00:09:06,312 --> 00:09:09,315
You said somewhere you knew that you were him.

58
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It was like in a mirror. He looked in a mirror and he saw your face.

59
00:09:15,555 --> 00:09:17,056
[Ullmann] He said he was inspired

60
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by a picture of Bibi and a picture of me

61
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and our alikeness.

62
00:09:23,896 --> 00:09:26,999
From the first time I came to the studio,

63
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I knew the way he looked at me that he knew...

64
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-I understood him. -Him.

65
00:09:35,775 --> 00:09:38,044
I was him in Persona.

66
00:09:38,077 --> 00:09:43,649
I think Max von Sydow was Ingmar during Hour of the Wolf.

67
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[in Swedish]

68
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[Ullmann] Max was very much what Ingmar was struggling with

69
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and getting more free from.

70
00:10:32,465 --> 00:10:33,632
[stammers]

71
00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:08,768
[in German]

72
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[Ullmann] Where Ingmar was fantastic--

73
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In every film I did,

74
00:11:22,348 --> 00:11:26,619
he stood so close to the camera-- very, very close--

75
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and he was the best audience.

76
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I never knew what he would have done or what he was thinking,

77
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but I knew everything I do now is seen by him.

78
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He says, "I've given you the script.

79
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You read the script. You have to understand the script."

80
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And he gave you wonderful blocking.

81
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"You sit for the three sentences,

82
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then you get up and then you go over to that chair

83
00:11:55,481 --> 00:11:59,552
and you stand by the chair and then you sit down there.

84
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You have read the script. You, the actor.

85
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You feel it, if you have understood it,

86
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and allow me, the director, to see that you have understood."

87
00:12:26,112 --> 00:12:28,948
And then he asked me again and he asked me again...

88
00:12:28,981 --> 00:12:32,418
I know, I know. You did ten films with him.

89
00:12:32,451 --> 00:12:34,854
I think I did eleven. Oh.

90
00:12:39,658 --> 00:12:41,961
[murmuring]

91
00:12:42,995 --> 00:12:44,630
[in Swedish]

92
00:13:06,185 --> 00:13:09,822
[Ullmann] When they are adapting all his movies on the stage,

93
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that would be the best that ever happened to Ingmar,

94
00:13:13,425 --> 00:13:16,295
because one thing he always wished

95
00:13:16,328 --> 00:13:21,133
was that they would really regard him highly for being a writer.

96
00:13:28,674 --> 00:13:33,245
[von Trotta] Maybe he came in this house because Strindberg was living here once,

97
00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:35,147
and he was so fond of Strindberg

98
00:13:35,181 --> 00:13:37,783
that he was fond of the idea to live in the same house.

99
00:13:37,816 --> 00:13:40,786
Maybe. But Ingmar,

100
00:13:40,819 --> 00:13:44,456
he lived in and around

101
00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:45,891
this part of Stockholm.

102
00:13:45,925 --> 00:13:48,460
Most of his life. [von Trotta] Always in the same area?

103
00:13:48,494 --> 00:13:50,596
[Björkman] Yes. Um...

104
00:13:51,397 --> 00:13:52,998
After he was born,

105
00:13:53,032 --> 00:13:57,036
he stayed with his parents about six, seven blocks away from here.

106
00:13:57,069 --> 00:13:58,304
Mm-hmm.

107
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[Björkman] And then they moved close to the church,

108
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where his father was the parson.

109
00:14:03,309 --> 00:14:06,645
[bell chiming]

110
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[chiming continues]

111
00:14:32,004 --> 00:14:35,507
This is the house where Ingmar lived

112
00:14:35,541 --> 00:14:37,877
with his family and his brother and sister.

113
00:15:01,567 --> 00:15:03,035
[von Trotta] Where is the Dramaten?

114
00:15:03,068 --> 00:15:05,304
[Björkman] Dramaten is in that direction.

115
00:15:16,015 --> 00:15:19,351
This was Ingmar's favorite restaurant.

116
00:15:19,385 --> 00:15:23,155
He very often went here because it's very close to the theater

117
00:15:23,188 --> 00:15:28,260
and he could have a meal for himself or invite somebody--

118
00:15:28,294 --> 00:15:30,296
a friend, an actor, an actress.

119
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He liked it because he could see the entrance,

120
00:15:32,931 --> 00:15:38,003
and maybe a friend, an actress, or somebody might come in and...

121
00:15:38,037 --> 00:15:42,207
As Ingmar was very curious, he wanted to know,

122
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"Are they seeing somebody? Somebody I don't know?"

123
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And he could check and see.

124
00:15:57,022 --> 00:16:00,726
[woman, in English] It's absolutely impossible to think...

125
00:16:02,027 --> 00:16:05,264
"What would I have become without him?"

126
00:16:05,297 --> 00:16:09,234
When I met him, I had started rather strong.

127
00:16:10,102 --> 00:16:12,338
We have so different backgrounds.

128
00:16:12,371 --> 00:16:16,575
I mean, he's the son of a priest in very high society.

129
00:16:16,608 --> 00:16:18,777
I was working-class and so on.

130
00:16:18,811 --> 00:16:22,014
But he gave me a lot. Really.

131
00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:29,822
Bergman always very carefully pointed out

132
00:16:29,855 --> 00:16:33,525
where is the action, where is the motive,

133
00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:37,896
where-- where should the public look now?

134
00:16:37,930 --> 00:16:39,965
Not on those two persons,

135
00:16:39,998 --> 00:16:45,104
because they are not, now, telling the story.

136
00:16:45,137 --> 00:16:49,675
Look at that point, because there it happens.

137
00:16:49,708 --> 00:16:52,644
And that's rather unusual.

138
00:16:52,678 --> 00:16:55,547
Many directors put people on stage

139
00:16:55,581 --> 00:16:58,050
and let the public decide.

140
00:17:10,262 --> 00:17:11,663
[Björkman] There was a time

141
00:17:11,697 --> 00:17:15,234
when everything was compared to Ingmar Bergman,

142
00:17:15,267 --> 00:17:20,873
and you can never reach that kind of level as Ingmar Bergman.

143
00:17:20,906 --> 00:17:25,377
I mean, we had some other fantastic film directors,

144
00:17:25,411 --> 00:17:26,945
like Bo Widerberg.

145
00:17:26,979 --> 00:17:29,681
And I think Bergman was a bit jealous

146
00:17:29,715 --> 00:17:32,117
of Bo Widerberg and the attention he got.

147
00:17:32,151 --> 00:17:36,989
It was like Widerberg started the Swedish nouvelle vague.

148
00:17:37,022 --> 00:17:40,025
The kind of new language which Bo Widerberg had--

149
00:17:40,059 --> 00:17:45,964
more improvisation, and he mixed nonactors with actors.

150
00:17:45,998 --> 00:17:50,069
Ingmar was considered by many of us at that time,

151
00:17:50,102 --> 00:17:54,039
maybe not by me, but by many of the newcomers,

152
00:17:54,072 --> 00:17:55,641
as "Papas Kino."

153
00:18:15,794 --> 00:18:20,199
Sjöstrom was, in a way, Ingmar's master,

154
00:18:20,232 --> 00:18:24,236
and he always said, "At least once every summer,

155
00:18:24,269 --> 00:18:26,772
I see The Phantom Carriage in my cinema."

156
00:18:26,805 --> 00:18:29,608
So he must have seen it, like, 50 times.

157
00:18:37,983 --> 00:18:42,554
And you can't make a more loving portrait of somebody you like

158
00:18:42,588 --> 00:18:46,592
as Sjöstrom in Wild Strawberries, where he acted.

159
00:19:18,957 --> 00:19:22,060
Films are dreams. They are in some way.

160
00:19:22,094 --> 00:19:27,432
But he also uses dreams in so many of-- of his movies.

161
00:19:27,466 --> 00:19:30,602
[water dripping]

162
00:19:32,738 --> 00:19:36,141
Persona is a major work and very brave.

163
00:19:36,175 --> 00:19:41,380
It starts with a young boy who sits up in a bed

164
00:19:41,413 --> 00:19:43,582
and, with his hands,

165
00:19:43,615 --> 00:19:49,555
he is kind of starting the story.

166
00:19:49,588 --> 00:19:53,792
So it's like the-- a young filmmaker

167
00:19:53,825 --> 00:19:56,662
giving us the story of Persona.

168
00:19:56,695 --> 00:20:01,400
And it can be Ingmar Bergman

169
00:20:01,433 --> 00:20:04,703
as a very young person also.

170
00:20:10,142 --> 00:20:11,877
[in Swedish]

171
00:20:41,006 --> 00:20:43,875
[von Trotta narrating in German]

172
00:22:30,449 --> 00:22:33,618
[woman singing opera]

173
00:22:52,003 --> 00:22:54,873
-[no audible dialogue] -[singing continues]

174
00:23:01,012 --> 00:23:03,014
[music ends]

175
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,262
[in French]

176
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:31,069
[bell tolling]

177
00:24:40,512 --> 00:24:41,913
[von Trotta, in French]

178
00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:49,621
[man, in French]

179
00:27:10,228 --> 00:27:12,130
[sighs]

180
00:27:21,272 --> 00:27:24,075
[in French]

181
00:28:09,421 --> 00:28:11,756
[train passing]

182
00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:45,890
[chattering in Swedish]

183
00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:23,595
[both laughing]

184
00:29:41,513 --> 00:29:42,847
Whoo!

185
00:29:42,881 --> 00:29:45,016
[chattering in Swedish]

186
00:30:37,202 --> 00:30:41,105
[von Trotta, in English] I went around here already yesterday

187
00:30:41,139 --> 00:30:43,775
to know a little bit what it's all about. Yeah.

188
00:30:43,808 --> 00:30:45,743
Because it's the first time that I was here.

189
00:30:45,777 --> 00:30:49,013
Right. And so I looked a little bit around,

190
00:30:49,047 --> 00:30:51,683
what's in these books and so.

191
00:30:51,716 --> 00:30:53,551
And what did I find? Yeah?

192
00:30:53,585 --> 00:30:56,688
Come here. You'll see what I found.

193
00:30:56,721 --> 00:30:58,223
Look at that. Yeah, right!

194
00:30:58,256 --> 00:30:59,991
-And two! -Yeah.

195
00:31:00,024 --> 00:31:02,026
Well, she has written, I think--

196
00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:04,862
[von Trotta] With a wonderful dedication.

197
00:31:06,097 --> 00:31:09,033
And you are the son; therefore I was very interested.

198
00:31:09,067 --> 00:31:12,837
And also because I know that she was a great pianist.

199
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:14,172
Yeah.

200
00:31:14,205 --> 00:31:17,275
And she helped him for Autumn Sonata, no? Yeah, yeah.

201
00:31:21,346 --> 00:31:22,880
[no audible dialogue]

202
00:31:28,253 --> 00:31:30,054
[chattering in Swedish]

203
00:31:34,993 --> 00:31:36,728
[Daniel] It was a passion about--

204
00:31:36,761 --> 00:31:38,796
[von Trotta] More about music than about real love?

205
00:31:38,830 --> 00:31:44,135
Yeah, exactly. They were both narcissists and they were fond of their artistry,

206
00:31:44,168 --> 00:31:45,603
each one of them.

207
00:31:45,637 --> 00:31:47,739
And so they came up for... Yeah, yeah.

208
00:31:48,439 --> 00:31:50,275
With the help of music,

209
00:31:50,308 --> 00:31:52,710
they started to love each other. Yeah, yeah.

210
00:31:52,744 --> 00:31:55,480
But that's a good reason. Music is... [coughing]

211
00:31:55,513 --> 00:31:58,082
[piano]

212
00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:08,926
[Daniel] I think children was a manifest for the love with a woman.

213
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,864
He said to the ladies when they were pregnant,

214
00:32:12,897 --> 00:32:15,733
"Now I know you love me." And then he left them.

215
00:32:15,767 --> 00:32:18,803
So it was more or less a way of controlling them.

216
00:32:19,537 --> 00:32:22,040
We sat here at this table,

217
00:32:22,073 --> 00:32:24,876
and I wrote my story and he wrote his story.

218
00:32:24,909 --> 00:32:26,744
And we had lunch together,

219
00:32:26,778 --> 00:32:29,180
and we talked about what we were writing.

220
00:32:29,213 --> 00:32:33,484
And he said, "There is a story in The Magic Lantern

221
00:32:33,518 --> 00:32:34,886
that could be a film."

222
00:32:34,919 --> 00:32:37,221
And I said, "Yes, I think so too.

223
00:32:37,255 --> 00:32:40,358
There is this bicycle story when you go on a tour

224
00:32:40,391 --> 00:32:41,959
with my grandfather

225
00:32:41,993 --> 00:32:43,294
to the church."

226
00:32:43,328 --> 00:32:44,962
[bells pealing]

227
00:32:48,599 --> 00:32:50,668
And he said, "Exactly. That's what I mean."

228
00:32:50,702 --> 00:32:52,537
I said, "Yeah, fine. I think there's a film.

229
00:32:52,570 --> 00:32:55,640
But for me, it's a short film. I can do it when you're dead.

230
00:32:55,673 --> 00:32:58,476
And I'll do it then." Uh...

231
00:32:58,509 --> 00:33:00,678
And he said, "No, I have a better idea.

232
00:33:00,712 --> 00:33:04,582
We do it now. We do it together. I write the script and you direct it."

233
00:33:04,615 --> 00:33:08,453
There's a red line between my grandfather, my father, and me.

234
00:33:08,486 --> 00:33:11,389
So I could see the same movements:

235
00:33:11,422 --> 00:33:13,358
aggression, hatred,

236
00:33:13,391 --> 00:33:17,362
love, and contradictions, and...

237
00:33:17,395 --> 00:33:20,465
But it became a conflict between me and Ingmar also,

238
00:33:20,498 --> 00:33:25,603
because there is a black line in the story

239
00:33:25,636 --> 00:33:30,375
where he tells his father, when his father is old,

240
00:33:30,408 --> 00:33:33,544
reading the dead wife's diaries

241
00:33:33,578 --> 00:33:37,014
and trying his 50-year-old son

242
00:33:37,048 --> 00:33:42,653
to help-- to help him to understand things from his life.

243
00:33:42,687 --> 00:33:44,789
He suddenly realizes that--

244
00:33:44,822 --> 00:33:49,060
"I never knew the woman I was married to for 50 years.

245
00:33:49,093 --> 00:33:52,263
Maybe I have lived wrong," he says.

246
00:33:52,296 --> 00:33:57,235
And then he's old and he's vulnerable and he's weak,

247
00:33:57,268 --> 00:33:59,237
and his son just goes,

248
00:33:59,270 --> 00:34:03,074
"I don't come to hear about emotional blackmail."

249
00:34:04,142 --> 00:34:07,278
[in Swedish]

250
00:34:23,261 --> 00:34:26,864
And Ingmar wanted this scene out already in the script,

251
00:34:26,898 --> 00:34:29,267
and I said, "No, this scene has to be there.

252
00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:31,069
It's one of the main scenes."

253
00:34:31,102 --> 00:34:33,538
Then in the editing, when he saw the first editing,

254
00:34:33,571 --> 00:34:37,141
he said, "The film is just brilliant. It's just one thing."

255
00:34:37,175 --> 00:34:39,210
"What is it?" "This scene must go out.

256
00:34:39,243 --> 00:34:40,978
And you take it out now."

257
00:34:42,547 --> 00:34:44,182
And we sat at the editing table.

258
00:34:44,215 --> 00:34:47,318
And I said, "No, I don't take it out. What do you mean?"

259
00:34:47,351 --> 00:34:50,588
"You take it out now. There's nothing to discuss. You just take it out.

260
00:34:50,621 --> 00:34:52,323
If you don't do it, I take the film."

261
00:34:52,356 --> 00:34:56,027
And I said, "If you want a war, you will have a war."

262
00:34:56,060 --> 00:34:57,962
"What kind of war are you talking about?

263
00:34:57,995 --> 00:34:59,664
What tools do you have for a war?"

264
00:34:59,697 --> 00:35:01,265
"You will be aware," I said.

265
00:35:02,934 --> 00:35:05,603
And then he suddenly started to cry.

266
00:35:05,636 --> 00:35:07,872
And he lost it completely.

267
00:35:07,905 --> 00:35:10,708
And I started to cry and I tried to hold him--

268
00:35:10,741 --> 00:35:15,046
Oh, my God, what a scene! ...and he pushed me away

269
00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:18,516
because he couldn't stand emotions in that way.

270
00:35:18,549 --> 00:35:22,653
And then he said, "Okay, Daniel. In a way, I like this.

271
00:35:22,687 --> 00:35:26,157
You do what you do, and I will never, ever look at this film again.

272
00:35:26,190 --> 00:35:27,625
I will never see it again."

273
00:35:29,527 --> 00:35:31,229
[von Trotta] I thought about it,

274
00:35:31,262 --> 00:35:35,967
that he always was much closer to his own childhood than to his own children.

275
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,603
Absolutely. Absolutely. Because he was so much wanting

276
00:35:38,636 --> 00:35:40,271
to be himself a child,

277
00:35:40,304 --> 00:35:42,874
so he couldn't care so much about his own children.

278
00:35:42,907 --> 00:35:45,476
He was still a child during his whole life.

279
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:48,513
Absolutely. This with the childhood is interesting because Ingmar also said--

280
00:35:48,546 --> 00:35:53,718
When Ingrid, his last wife, got cancer and was about to die,

281
00:35:53,751 --> 00:35:56,087
he wrote in his diaries,

282
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:01,392
"It's amazing that this old man has to get out of the child chamber now.

283
00:36:01,425 --> 00:36:03,127
It's very cruel."

284
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,165
He felt pity for himself that he has to leave the child room.

285
00:36:07,198 --> 00:36:12,537
He has always been playing in his cabinet with all the tools and just having fun.

286
00:36:13,037 --> 00:36:14,872
[in Swedish]

287
00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:20,044
[laughs]

288
00:36:21,412 --> 00:36:24,815
And that's what I wonder so much. Why is it so difficult?

289
00:36:24,849 --> 00:36:27,552
If you have such a good relation to your own childhood

290
00:36:27,585 --> 00:36:29,820
or understanding for your own childhood,

291
00:36:29,854 --> 00:36:32,523
why can't you understand your own child?

292
00:36:33,291 --> 00:36:36,160
[in Swedish]

293
00:36:48,973 --> 00:36:51,342
[Daniel] He did a film called Daniel,

294
00:36:51,375 --> 00:36:53,311
about myself when I was a child.

295
00:36:53,344 --> 00:36:59,083
There's a need to get into, understand the child, but he didn't reach it.

296
00:36:59,116 --> 00:37:01,752
He can do a film about it, but he can't reach it himself.

297
00:37:03,854 --> 00:37:06,157
There is a certain kind of love,

298
00:37:06,190 --> 00:37:09,794
but there is also some kind of opposite.

299
00:37:09,827 --> 00:37:12,396
And the strange thing is that,

300
00:37:12,430 --> 00:37:13,898
since he died-- [clears throat]

301
00:37:14,732 --> 00:37:17,401
...I have never felt I miss him.

302
00:37:17,435 --> 00:37:19,270
Not for one single minute.

303
00:37:19,303 --> 00:37:23,741
And I go to the church and I light a candle on his grave.

304
00:37:27,612 --> 00:37:29,947
And often I think that--

305
00:37:29,981 --> 00:37:31,882
Because my mother is also dead,

306
00:37:31,916 --> 00:37:34,919
and it's so strange that I don't miss them, you see.

307
00:37:34,952 --> 00:37:36,687
Nor...? No, none of them.

308
00:37:36,721 --> 00:37:40,057
And I never call them by "Mother" and "Father."

309
00:37:40,091 --> 00:37:42,326
I call them "Ingmar" and "Käbi."

310
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,064
And I'm thinking a lot with my own child, Judith, who is now nine,

311
00:37:47,098 --> 00:37:49,066
what love is, what I feel for her.

312
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:53,804
And that it would be unbearable if I felt the same for my parents--

313
00:37:53,838 --> 00:37:56,607
If she would feel the same for me, it would be terrible.

314
00:38:05,683 --> 00:38:10,821
You should never trust Ingmar's stories because they were always, uh...

315
00:38:10,855 --> 00:38:13,758
Sometimes they are true and sometimes not.

316
00:38:13,791 --> 00:38:18,562
One side was true, but the other side was true too. So you could never...

317
00:38:18,596 --> 00:38:23,100
And in the film Fanny and Alexander, the pastor versus the child,

318
00:38:23,134 --> 00:38:26,170
he says, "The truth. You have to tell the truth.

319
00:38:26,203 --> 00:38:29,240
And if you don't tell the truth, you get a punishment."

320
00:38:29,273 --> 00:38:31,942
And on the other hand, the child tells the truth,

321
00:38:31,976 --> 00:38:34,779
but the priest can't stand it.

322
00:38:37,615 --> 00:38:39,150
[in Swedish]

323
00:38:52,063 --> 00:38:56,634
Just a few years before he died, one of my sisters sat here on the sofa

324
00:38:56,667 --> 00:38:59,704
and Ingmar sat here.

325
00:38:59,737 --> 00:39:02,740
And he said-- He felt sorry for himself, and he said,

326
00:39:02,773 --> 00:39:06,210
"Well, I miss the actors. I miss the actors."

327
00:39:06,243 --> 00:39:11,882
And she went, "How would it be if you just for one single second said,

328
00:39:11,916 --> 00:39:14,552
‘I miss my children,' or ‘I miss my grandchildren'?"

329
00:39:14,585 --> 00:39:16,620
Oh, my God. And he looked at her,

330
00:39:16,654 --> 00:39:19,724
-"But I don't." -[both laughing]

331
00:39:21,058 --> 00:39:24,195
I don't want to judge them. They do it as good as they can,

332
00:39:24,228 --> 00:39:27,431
but being a parent and being an artist--

333
00:39:27,465 --> 00:39:32,770
That's what my mother always-- also said very cleverly in interviews she did.

334
00:39:32,803 --> 00:39:34,872
She said, "Well, it doesn't fit together."

335
00:39:42,213 --> 00:39:44,482
You are already there. Okay. Already?

336
00:39:44,515 --> 00:39:46,984
[speaking Swedish]

337
00:39:47,017 --> 00:39:49,320
This is my favorite brother. Really?

338
00:39:49,353 --> 00:39:50,654
Yeah, because he was a pilot,

339
00:39:50,688 --> 00:39:52,189
and I was doing films and I...

340
00:39:52,223 --> 00:39:53,424
[laughing]

341
00:39:53,457 --> 00:39:55,259
I felt this is a real job he has.

342
00:39:55,292 --> 00:39:58,129
Yeah, that is a real one, and-- He used to...

343
00:39:58,162 --> 00:40:03,100
I didn't meet Daniel first time until we came here in 1978.

344
00:40:03,134 --> 00:40:05,903
I think that was the first time we met actually.

345
00:40:05,936 --> 00:40:07,605
Yeah, for the 60th birthday.

346
00:40:11,876 --> 00:40:13,978
[Daniel] It was the decision from Ingrid that,

347
00:40:14,011 --> 00:40:19,083
"Now when you get 60, you need to collect all the kids together."

348
00:40:19,116 --> 00:40:23,454
And I think it was a way for Ingrid to get also her children to come,

349
00:40:23,487 --> 00:40:25,189
because they were not allowed before.

350
00:40:25,222 --> 00:40:26,924
So what happened was

351
00:40:26,957 --> 00:40:30,861
that loads of sisters and brothers suddenly appeared here

352
00:40:30,895 --> 00:40:34,465
which I never saw before.

353
00:40:34,498 --> 00:40:36,133
Yeah, same with me.

354
00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:15,039
[woman, in English] It was the last day of school.

355
00:41:15,072 --> 00:41:20,177
They came in a big car from the studio, and the driver came out and said,

356
00:41:20,211 --> 00:41:22,513
"Come on. You have to go to the studio.

357
00:41:22,546 --> 00:41:24,949
No lunch." So I went out

358
00:41:24,982 --> 00:41:28,085
and I met the head of the studio,

359
00:41:28,118 --> 00:41:31,989
and he said, "This year, you have to work with Ingmar Bergman."

360
00:41:33,090 --> 00:41:35,025
And I said, "Why me?"

361
00:41:35,059 --> 00:41:37,361
And he said, "Because nobody else wants to."

362
00:41:37,394 --> 00:41:43,067
The word was that he threw script girls and assistant cameramen

363
00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:45,803
out through the door all the time.

364
00:41:45,836 --> 00:41:49,840
And I met him finally with the head of the studio,

365
00:41:49,874 --> 00:41:52,276
and he said, "This is your new script girl."

366
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:53,677
And they also said to me,

367
00:41:53,711 --> 00:41:55,913
"If he stares at you, stare back.

368
00:41:55,946 --> 00:41:59,116
If he spits at you, spit back."

369
00:41:59,149 --> 00:42:03,120
So he looked at me and I stared back, and then he started to laugh

370
00:42:03,153 --> 00:42:05,956
and he said, "It'll be all right." And he left.

371
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:08,626
And then you stuck together for-for--

372
00:42:08,659 --> 00:42:10,227
For 30 years.

373
00:42:11,061 --> 00:42:14,632
He had a method, and that was--

374
00:42:14,665 --> 00:42:18,068
Don't argue with the actors, don't shout at them,

375
00:42:18,102 --> 00:42:21,005
don't make quarrels with the actors.

376
00:42:21,038 --> 00:42:24,008
And then he took somebody in the crew instead. [chuckles]

377
00:42:24,041 --> 00:42:27,344
And the script girl was always sitting by the camera,

378
00:42:27,378 --> 00:42:31,882
so he started to yell at me very often in the beginning.

379
00:42:31,916 --> 00:42:34,151
And it was difficult because I didn't understand.

380
00:42:36,887 --> 00:42:41,058
He never thought that he was good enough.

381
00:42:41,091 --> 00:42:45,062
Which is quite interesting. So he didn't have that big ego.

382
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:49,700
So in the last films we did...

383
00:42:51,335 --> 00:42:52,870
he came--

384
00:42:52,903 --> 00:42:56,740
I saw the rushes at 7:30 in the morning.

385
00:42:56,774 --> 00:42:58,876
And I came to the studio, and he was waiting.

386
00:42:58,909 --> 00:43:01,378
With me and Sven Nykvist, we came together.

387
00:43:01,412 --> 00:43:02,913
"Was it okay? Was it okay?"

388
00:43:02,947 --> 00:43:06,750
It was the time when it was film. A laboratory took two days.

389
00:43:06,784 --> 00:43:09,987
And, you know, this terrible thing today.

390
00:43:10,020 --> 00:43:13,891
And so then we went up to his dressing room...

391
00:43:15,192 --> 00:43:17,628
and no lamps, no nothing.

392
00:43:17,661 --> 00:43:21,665
And we were sitting there for perhaps 20 minutes, half an hour,

393
00:43:21,699 --> 00:43:23,267
holding hands.

394
00:43:25,002 --> 00:43:29,173
Not saying much or perhaps, some days, nothing.

395
00:43:30,274 --> 00:43:32,710
And at 8:30, I looked at the watch and said,

396
00:43:32,743 --> 00:43:35,279
"Ingmar, you have to go down now."

397
00:43:35,312 --> 00:43:37,314
[sighs deeply] ...he said,

398
00:43:37,348 --> 00:43:41,085
put on his slippers and went down to the studio.

399
00:43:44,088 --> 00:43:49,460
We were having a production meeting with Gunnel Lindblom, for a film.

400
00:43:49,493 --> 00:43:51,862
It was the day before we went on location.

401
00:43:51,895 --> 00:43:54,865
It was the last meeting here in Stockholm.

402
00:43:54,898 --> 00:43:59,703
In the morning of that day, Ingmar called me and said,

403
00:43:59,737 --> 00:44:03,107
"I want you to know I'm leaving today,

404
00:44:03,140 --> 00:44:06,243
and I want you to know that before the evening papers come out."

405
00:44:08,145 --> 00:44:09,580
So he left.

406
00:44:09,613 --> 00:44:11,682
And I had to tell the crew and Gunnel,

407
00:44:11,715 --> 00:44:13,751
"That's it. We'll do it ourselves."

408
00:44:17,588 --> 00:44:20,391
[Bergman, in English] We rehearsed at the Royal Dramatic Theater.

409
00:44:20,424 --> 00:44:22,026
We were in the big rehearsal room,

410
00:44:22,059 --> 00:44:24,228
and then suddenly somebody come to me and said,

411
00:44:24,261 --> 00:44:27,231
"The police is downstairs and want to talk to you."

412
00:44:27,264 --> 00:44:30,934
And I said... Um...

413
00:44:30,968 --> 00:44:33,037
I didn't-- I couldn't imagine.

414
00:44:33,070 --> 00:44:34,405
So I said,

415
00:44:34,438 --> 00:44:38,542
"Can't they wait until the lunch break? It's 20 minutes."

416
00:44:38,575 --> 00:44:40,044
And then the man said,

417
00:44:40,077 --> 00:44:42,713
"It's impossible. They won't go away."

418
00:44:42,746 --> 00:44:46,083
Then I went down to the room of my secretary.

419
00:44:46,116 --> 00:44:50,554
There were a policeman who said, "We have to take you to the station."

420
00:44:50,587 --> 00:44:52,523
And I said, "Why?" And he said,

421
00:44:52,556 --> 00:44:55,292
"It's about your tax-- your taxes."

422
00:44:55,325 --> 00:44:58,429
And I said, "What happens? What has happened?"

423
00:44:58,462 --> 00:45:00,531
I was completely confused.

424
00:45:00,564 --> 00:45:04,334
I didn't-- hadn't the slightest idea

425
00:45:04,368 --> 00:45:07,004
about what they asked me about.

426
00:45:18,248 --> 00:45:20,551
[elevator chimes]

427
00:45:22,486 --> 00:45:23,687
[buzzes]

428
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:26,223
[indistinct] But it's like in a prison here.

429
00:45:30,461 --> 00:45:34,631
[man] He really did feel that he was cast out of Sweden.

430
00:45:37,401 --> 00:45:38,836
Having voted

431
00:45:38,869 --> 00:45:42,673
for the Swedish Social Democratic Party for a long time,

432
00:45:42,706 --> 00:45:45,275
he now felt that they had betrayed him.

433
00:45:48,178 --> 00:45:51,815
This is a shooting script for Das Schlangenei.

434
00:45:52,616 --> 00:45:55,185
[von Trotta, in German]

435
00:46:00,924 --> 00:46:03,427
[in English] And that is the sign that a scene is done?

436
00:46:03,460 --> 00:46:05,062
[Holmberg] The scene is shot.

437
00:46:05,095 --> 00:46:09,767
This is also interesting, I think, that he has a motto by Büchner.

438
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,602
[von Trotta] "Man is an abyss"...

439
00:46:11,635 --> 00:46:16,273
[in German]

440
00:46:19,643 --> 00:46:24,448
[Holmberg, in English] Bergman, he very seldom used research materials,

441
00:46:24,481 --> 00:46:26,650
but in this film, he did.

442
00:46:26,683 --> 00:46:29,753
So there are other pictures as well.

443
00:46:33,056 --> 00:46:35,792
[von Trotta] And this street they tried then to reproduce.

444
00:46:35,826 --> 00:46:37,928
Also Fassbinder, he used it.

445
00:46:37,961 --> 00:46:40,030
Right. In Berlin Alexanderplatz, yes.

446
00:46:40,063 --> 00:46:42,266
And it's called Bergmannstraße, isn't it?

447
00:46:42,299 --> 00:46:45,803
Yes, yes, it was called Bergmannstraße for a long time.

448
00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:51,975
[man, in English] Yes, here we have our street,

449
00:46:52,009 --> 00:46:55,746
our Berlin streets, you remember...

450
00:47:00,617 --> 00:47:02,753
[indistinct]

451
00:47:05,155 --> 00:47:09,359
[chorus singing in German]

452
00:47:09,393 --> 00:47:13,163
[von Trotta] The fear people could have in this time,

453
00:47:13,197 --> 00:47:18,302
because Hitler was already trying to make a revolt, and that it was turned down.

454
00:47:18,335 --> 00:47:23,140
But it goes from-- from the beginning, he wanted to get the power,

455
00:47:23,173 --> 00:47:26,210
and in the end of the film it breaks down.

456
00:47:26,243 --> 00:47:30,714
So we have still ten years of "non-Hitler time."

457
00:47:30,747 --> 00:47:32,416
Right, right.

458
00:47:32,449 --> 00:47:35,786
But that was a time where

459
00:47:35,819 --> 00:47:38,922
everything could happen, and every violence could happen.

460
00:47:38,956 --> 00:47:41,024
[all shouting]

461
00:47:43,293 --> 00:47:46,597
When you see the situation of the main character,

462
00:47:46,630 --> 00:47:47,998
who is followed always,

463
00:47:48,031 --> 00:47:51,268
and he's going around in this police station,

464
00:47:51,301 --> 00:47:52,703
he's like a prisoner. Yeah.

465
00:47:52,736 --> 00:47:55,272
And he's going always behind the bars,

466
00:47:55,305 --> 00:48:00,277
and you have this feeling that somebody is-- [gasps] is on the run.

467
00:48:00,310 --> 00:48:04,348
He pointed out that very strongly in the film, this situation.

468
00:48:04,381 --> 00:48:06,583
And this was his own situation at this moment.

469
00:48:06,617 --> 00:48:10,287
Yes, exactly. Yes. This was a moment of deep crisis for him.

470
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,756
He had a psychological breakdown,

471
00:48:12,789 --> 00:48:16,326
and he was admitted to a psychiatric ward.

472
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,464
He was heavily medicated. He contemplated suicide.

473
00:48:20,497 --> 00:48:24,568
It was much more than just a legal case for him. He was--

474
00:48:24,601 --> 00:48:27,104
Humiliated. Yes, extremely humiliated.

475
00:48:27,137 --> 00:48:31,074
And humiliation for him was a main theme also in his films, no?

476
00:48:31,108 --> 00:48:35,779
Yes. And I think when he felt betrayed, I mean, right or wrong,

477
00:48:35,812 --> 00:48:40,550
but he did feel betrayed by the Swedish government and his home country,

478
00:48:40,584 --> 00:48:45,923
he felt it as if he was deserted by his father, as it were.

479
00:48:45,956 --> 00:48:49,426
Oh, yeah, his fatherland. We say also "fatherland." So, yeah.

480
00:48:49,459 --> 00:48:51,895
And I'm certainly not comparing him

481
00:48:51,928 --> 00:48:55,732
to refugees who are running from-- for their lives,

482
00:48:55,766 --> 00:48:59,336
uh, but he did feel it like that, yes.

483
00:48:59,369 --> 00:49:00,671
Yes, yes.

484
00:49:00,704 --> 00:49:02,906
And of course calling it The Serpent's Egg

485
00:49:02,939 --> 00:49:06,376
had something to do with another...

486
00:49:06,410 --> 00:49:10,147
I hesitate to use the word, but in a way, a father figure,

487
00:49:10,180 --> 00:49:12,582
uh, namely Adolf Hitler.

488
00:49:12,616 --> 00:49:15,485
Ingmar Bergman had, as a young boy,

489
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:20,090
felt that Hitler was some kind of a savior,

490
00:49:20,123 --> 00:49:23,994
and this was years before the war, so many people felt like this,

491
00:49:24,027 --> 00:49:25,862
and Ingmar Bergman was one of them.

492
00:49:25,896 --> 00:49:29,066
Many people in Sweden also. Yes, yes. Absolutely. Yes.

493
00:49:29,099 --> 00:49:33,937
I hesitate to say that he would look up to Hitler as a father figure,

494
00:49:33,970 --> 00:49:38,275
but, still, there is this notion of strong men

495
00:49:38,308 --> 00:49:41,745
in Bergman's way of thinking.

496
00:49:41,778 --> 00:49:45,248
And they are not necessarily all evil,

497
00:49:45,282 --> 00:49:49,186
but they certainly have a capacity for evil.

498
00:50:01,832 --> 00:50:04,935
At his absolute lowest, in 1976,

499
00:50:04,968 --> 00:50:07,738
when the tax affair is most acute,

500
00:50:07,771 --> 00:50:10,273
in his work diary, suddenly he writes,

501
00:50:10,307 --> 00:50:13,810
"Wait a minute, I should be able to use this.

502
00:50:13,844 --> 00:50:17,581
This is exactly what Abel, my character, should be feeling.

503
00:50:17,614 --> 00:50:22,419
So I can take my own emotions now and try to write them down."

504
00:50:22,452 --> 00:50:25,555
Whether he feels happy or depressed,

505
00:50:25,589 --> 00:50:27,724
he can use that emotion

506
00:50:27,758 --> 00:50:32,996
and, uh, and turn it into the emotions of one of his fictional characters.

507
00:50:34,364 --> 00:50:36,967
[in German]

508
00:50:52,382 --> 00:50:56,820
This is the workbook from 1976, and it says here,

509
00:50:56,853 --> 00:50:59,723
"Känslorna." "The emotions."

510
00:50:59,756 --> 00:51:03,760
And it ends up with him saying that,

511
00:51:03,794 --> 00:51:06,696
"My confusion just has to stop.

512
00:51:06,730 --> 00:51:09,299
If someone would come to me and say,

513
00:51:09,332 --> 00:51:12,936
‘Now, Ingmar Bergman, we are taking from you everything you own,'

514
00:51:12,969 --> 00:51:15,872
I would welcome this and feel it as a comfort.

515
00:51:15,906 --> 00:51:20,410
In any case, a new period of my life is starting.

516
00:51:20,444 --> 00:51:24,648
Where I'm going, I don't know. The next couple of months, we will see."

517
00:51:24,681 --> 00:51:28,952
And then, what he did do was to go to Los Angeles.

518
00:51:28,985 --> 00:51:34,257
But he says here, in the second of July, 1976,

519
00:51:34,291 --> 00:51:37,494
that he has gone back to Fårö, because,

520
00:51:37,527 --> 00:51:39,596
"I couldn't stay in Los Angeles.

521
00:51:39,629 --> 00:51:42,833
I felt terrible there. It was all a mess."

522
00:51:42,866 --> 00:51:46,136
And then he decided to go to Munich.

523
00:51:52,275 --> 00:51:55,879
[in German]

524
00:52:36,987 --> 00:52:39,122
[man, in German]

525
00:54:04,641 --> 00:54:07,010
[chattering in German]

526
00:54:32,636 --> 00:54:37,741
[woman, in German]

527
00:55:19,582 --> 00:55:22,619
[Kaetzler]

528
00:56:45,602 --> 00:56:46,870
[scoffs]

529
00:56:50,106 --> 00:56:54,277
[Kaetzler]

530
00:57:41,324 --> 00:57:43,026
[sobbing]

531
00:57:58,408 --> 00:58:02,312
[Dohm]

532
00:58:53,463 --> 00:58:55,899
[Dohm]

533
00:59:36,005 --> 00:59:39,075
[in Swedish]

534
00:59:59,095 --> 01:00:03,700
[Dohm]

535
01:00:49,612 --> 01:00:51,047
[in Swedish]

536
01:00:54,417 --> 01:00:57,320
[in German]

537
01:00:57,954 --> 01:01:01,691
[Kaetzler]

538
01:01:14,237 --> 01:01:16,773
[chattering]

539
01:01:27,650 --> 01:01:29,819
[man, in German]

540
01:01:31,554 --> 01:01:33,856
[man, in English] From the Life of the Marionettes --

541
01:01:33,890 --> 01:01:36,993
It's a little bit a forgotten film of Ingmar.

542
01:01:37,026 --> 01:01:40,229
And I think it's one of his most interesting

543
01:01:40,263 --> 01:01:42,298
and brave films.

544
01:01:42,331 --> 01:01:45,001
It's very experimental.

545
01:01:52,375 --> 01:01:54,444
It's a kind of dream sequence

546
01:01:54,477 --> 01:01:58,481
where they are in a white light, the two main characters,

547
01:01:58,514 --> 01:02:02,018
and it's a very long, very sensual scene.

548
01:02:02,051 --> 01:02:07,156
So he experimented with a black-and-white film also very much.

549
01:02:11,794 --> 01:02:15,765
Then the rest of the film is like interrogations

550
01:02:15,798 --> 01:02:17,667
with the different persons,

551
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:20,670
and it's also in chapters, which is interesting.

552
01:02:20,703 --> 01:02:23,272
So we see the same story

553
01:02:23,306 --> 01:02:28,044
through many different eyes and perspectives.

554
01:02:31,948 --> 01:02:37,186
It's very seldom that Ingmar has had a gay person in his films.

555
01:02:37,220 --> 01:02:38,855
[speaking German]

556
01:02:38,888 --> 01:02:42,191
And here he is one of the principal characters.

557
01:02:42,225 --> 01:02:46,896
He is showing this person, Tim, in a very,

558
01:02:46,929 --> 01:02:51,801
uh, both sensitive and, um, delicate way.

559
01:02:52,368 --> 01:02:56,873
[in German]

560
01:03:26,068 --> 01:03:31,240
[in English] Everybody says that Bergman was fantastic with his actresses

561
01:03:31,274 --> 01:03:36,546
and that he made so many beautiful portraits of women

562
01:03:36,579 --> 01:03:38,314
in so many of his films.

563
01:03:38,347 --> 01:03:40,816
And this image of Tim

564
01:03:40,850 --> 01:03:44,620
has the same qualities as Bergman's portraits of women.

565
01:03:51,093 --> 01:03:53,896
[von Trotta] You have the double face like always.

566
01:03:53,930 --> 01:03:55,731
And when you look into the mirror,

567
01:03:55,765 --> 01:03:58,534
you're another person than you are yourself, so...

568
01:03:58,568 --> 01:04:01,137
It's always this double face.

569
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:08,778
So the heritage might be that a filmmaker who,

570
01:04:09,912 --> 01:04:16,252
over the years, can, uh, change in attitudes,

571
01:04:16,285 --> 01:04:19,255
in technique, in whatever,

572
01:04:19,288 --> 01:04:22,258
and to experiment with a medium.

573
01:04:22,291 --> 01:04:28,297
That's maybe one of his most important heritage.

574
01:04:28,331 --> 01:04:30,233
[typing]

575
01:04:32,134 --> 01:04:35,938
[in English] You have to watch one of my favorite YouTube clips.

576
01:04:35,972 --> 01:04:41,244
It's a taxi driver that by accident ends up in a BBC news program.

577
01:04:41,277 --> 01:04:45,781
The journalist thinks that this cabdriver is an expert on Internet rights.

578
01:04:45,815 --> 01:04:47,883
And when she's introducing him,

579
01:04:47,917 --> 01:04:50,686
the taxi driver realizes this is a horrible mistake.

580
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:52,688
[woman] ...the site News Wireless.

581
01:04:52,722 --> 01:04:54,657
-Hello, good morning to you. -Good morning.

582
01:04:54,690 --> 01:04:57,960
-[man, von Trotta laughing] -Were you surprised by this verdict today?

583
01:04:57,994 --> 01:05:03,065
I'm very surprised to see... this verdict to come on me, because...

584
01:05:03,099 --> 01:05:05,868
[laughing]

585
01:05:05,901 --> 01:05:08,337
And I've tried so many-- in all of my movies

586
01:05:08,371 --> 01:05:11,440
to capture that moment when someone is trying to avoid losing face.

587
01:05:11,474 --> 01:05:13,175
Mm-hmm.

588
01:05:13,209 --> 01:05:15,478
And I have never managed to do it in this strong way.

589
01:05:15,511 --> 01:05:16,746
Yeah.

590
01:05:16,779 --> 01:05:17,780
Bergman was still alive

591
01:05:17,813 --> 01:05:19,015
when I was in the university,

592
01:05:19,048 --> 01:05:22,318
so it was, like, a little bit that

593
01:05:22,351 --> 01:05:25,021
he had to die before we started to watch his films a little bit.

594
01:05:25,054 --> 01:05:25,855
Oh, yes.

595
01:05:25,888 --> 01:05:27,523
But there's also a difference

596
01:05:27,556 --> 01:05:28,891
between the film school in Gothenburg

597
01:05:28,924 --> 01:05:30,693
and the one that is in Stockholm.

598
01:05:30,726 --> 01:05:33,062
The one in Stockholm is more connected with Bergman.

599
01:05:33,095 --> 01:05:36,232
The Gothenburg school was connected with Bo Widerberg,

600
01:05:36,265 --> 01:05:39,335
and Bo Widerberg was an antagonist to Bergman in Sweden.

601
01:05:39,368 --> 01:05:40,603
[von Trotta] Ah. Yeah.

602
01:05:40,636 --> 01:05:43,472
So if Bo Widerberg had anything to do with you,

603
01:05:43,506 --> 01:05:46,642
then you were on the opposite side of the industry than Bergman.

604
01:05:46,676 --> 01:05:48,644
Of course, we watched many of his films.

605
01:05:48,678 --> 01:05:54,216
But I think that, you know, since I'm brought up during the '70s,

606
01:05:54,250 --> 01:05:56,986
I'm a director also that is on the paradigm change

607
01:05:57,019 --> 01:06:01,891
of when film was analog to becoming digital.

608
01:06:01,924 --> 01:06:04,226
And when it became digital,

609
01:06:04,260 --> 01:06:07,530
like, this whole movement that happened in the industry

610
01:06:07,563 --> 01:06:11,400
that also have happened with Internet and YouTube and so on...

611
01:06:11,434 --> 01:06:15,271
I must say, if you look at the strongest images, moving images,

612
01:06:15,304 --> 01:06:19,275
uh, for me the last 15 years, it's definitely on YouTube.

613
01:06:19,308 --> 01:06:23,012
[chattering in Swedish]

614
01:06:23,045 --> 01:06:24,447
[man]

615
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,049
[woman]

616
01:06:31,087 --> 01:06:35,191
[man, woman]

617
01:06:35,224 --> 01:06:39,028
One thing that's a little bit inspiring with him was that he...

618
01:06:39,061 --> 01:06:41,263
For example, when he did Scenes from a Marriage,

619
01:06:41,297 --> 01:06:45,368
that he was inspired of Dallas, you know, this TV soap series.

620
01:06:45,401 --> 01:06:49,505
And that he had a way of combining, like, the art house cinema

621
01:06:49,538 --> 01:06:53,576
with very commercial, American industry.

622
01:06:53,609 --> 01:06:55,344
And he didn't see any problem with that.

623
01:06:55,378 --> 01:06:59,749
He loved both of these sides of the moviemaking industry.

624
01:07:06,222 --> 01:07:09,759
That is something that is maybe a little bit lacking today, you know,

625
01:07:09,792 --> 01:07:14,930
that either you're very, very art house or you're moneymaking movie industry.

626
01:07:14,964 --> 01:07:19,602
And in order to create, like, the new cinema that is exciting,

627
01:07:19,635 --> 01:07:23,973
but at the same time is dealing with, like, a very important society topic,

628
01:07:24,006 --> 01:07:26,108
I think we also have to learn something about that,

629
01:07:26,142 --> 01:07:29,044
to not make genre art house movies.

630
01:07:29,078 --> 01:07:31,547
Actually, step up, break free from that.

631
01:07:32,081 --> 01:07:36,018
[sighs]

632
01:07:55,504 --> 01:07:57,773
[Östlund] He was trusting his own instrument in a way

633
01:07:57,807 --> 01:07:59,675
and what he said to himself,

634
01:07:59,708 --> 01:08:03,379
"This is a very important topic, and now I will go straight into it."

635
01:08:03,412 --> 01:08:05,247
And being as honest as possible.

636
01:08:05,281 --> 01:08:08,417
Because I think he managed to do that with Scenes from a Marriage.

637
01:08:08,451 --> 01:08:13,956
It's, like, really, really showing sides of himself that he's not proud of at all,

638
01:08:13,989 --> 01:08:18,160
and that he dares to go there and actually can separate

639
01:08:18,194 --> 01:08:21,997
what he's writing and what he's filming from himself

640
01:08:22,031 --> 01:08:25,968
at the same time that being so honest to his own experiences.

641
01:08:27,136 --> 01:08:28,170
[in Swedish]

642
01:08:54,663 --> 01:08:56,799
[woman, in German]

643
01:09:05,474 --> 01:09:06,976
[Russek, von Trotta laughing]

644
01:09:08,077 --> 01:09:12,014
[von Trotta, Russek]

645
01:09:17,486 --> 01:09:19,722
[von Trotta]

646
01:09:57,126 --> 01:09:57,960
[giggles]

647
01:10:06,135 --> 01:10:08,170
[Russek]

648
01:10:30,059 --> 01:10:32,227
[exhales]

649
01:11:39,595 --> 01:11:42,131
[gasping]

650
01:11:45,034 --> 01:11:47,269
[in German]

651
01:12:16,365 --> 01:12:20,269
[Russek]

652
01:12:53,969 --> 01:12:57,740
[man, in English] He took pride in showing me films in his cinema.

653
01:12:58,640 --> 01:12:59,742
We had to be really quiet

654
01:12:59,775 --> 01:13:01,076
when we watched a film.

655
01:13:01,110 --> 01:13:03,412
There was no talking, you know, no...

656
01:13:03,445 --> 01:13:05,781
But laughing, yes. Laughing, of course.

657
01:13:05,814 --> 01:13:08,484
And we could sleep also, if we wanted to.

658
01:13:08,517 --> 01:13:13,555
That was no problem. But no talking, no interrupting the film.

659
01:13:13,589 --> 01:13:15,657
He was going to screen Pearl Harbor,

660
01:13:15,691 --> 01:13:20,729
but he didn't like the film so much, so we just watched the action sequences.

661
01:13:20,763 --> 01:13:22,931
And every time the action sequences was finished,

662
01:13:22,965 --> 01:13:25,601
he did like this to the machinist behind,

663
01:13:25,634 --> 01:13:30,472
and she, you know, taped forward over the love sequences, which he hated.

664
01:13:30,506 --> 01:13:32,674
[von Trotta laughing] And then we just watched Pearl Harbor,

665
01:13:32,708 --> 01:13:34,176
just the action sequences.

666
01:13:35,210 --> 01:13:36,378
He was not a film snob.

667
01:13:36,411 --> 01:13:38,280
That was his idea, not mine.

668
01:13:39,648 --> 01:13:42,751
He was also this fantastic storyteller.

669
01:13:42,785 --> 01:13:45,521
He told a story about a witch who lived on the island,

670
01:13:45,554 --> 01:13:49,992
and we used to run there and knock on the door and then run back.

671
01:13:50,025 --> 01:13:52,961
And it was, like, in the guesthouse, where we used to live,

672
01:13:52,995 --> 01:13:56,832
he painted, you know, a red line on the floor,

673
01:13:56,865 --> 01:13:59,601
a really ugly red line on the floor,

674
01:13:59,635 --> 01:14:02,037
and he wrote, "The blood of the witch."

675
01:14:08,310 --> 01:14:11,346
It was integrated in the system of the whole island

676
01:14:11,380 --> 01:14:16,118
that you could only visit his house and his library,

677
01:14:16,151 --> 01:14:19,688
you know, between 11:00 and 3:00.

678
01:14:19,721 --> 01:14:22,925
If you came 10:45, it was not okay.

679
01:14:22,958 --> 01:14:26,128
If you came 3:15, it was not okay.

680
01:14:26,161 --> 01:14:28,597
So, you know, he had these really strict rules

681
01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:30,799
because he had the schedule when he was writing

682
01:14:30,833 --> 01:14:33,969
and he was sleeping and he was, you know, thinking,

683
01:14:34,002 --> 01:14:36,071
and he was really strict about his time.

684
01:14:37,473 --> 01:14:40,209
I wanted him to be just my grandfather.

685
01:14:40,242 --> 01:14:43,779
And I didn't see any of my grandmother's films

686
01:14:43,812 --> 01:14:49,151
because I wanted them to be just my family and not this famous filmmaker.

687
01:14:51,119 --> 01:14:54,389
It gives also a certain confidence

688
01:14:54,423 --> 01:14:56,959
that I-- that I feel that, you know,

689
01:14:56,992 --> 01:14:59,728
I'm not him, and I'm not going to be like him,

690
01:14:59,761 --> 01:15:02,764
I'm not going to make the films like he did.

691
01:15:02,798 --> 01:15:06,902
But he is-- He's inside of me in some, you know, way.

692
01:15:24,086 --> 01:15:28,023
[woman, in French]

693
01:16:46,335 --> 01:16:49,605
[in French]

694
01:17:41,990 --> 01:17:44,726
[in Swedish] [machine buzzes]

695
01:17:46,661 --> 01:17:49,698
[Hansen-Løve, in French]

696
01:17:53,368 --> 01:17:56,004
[Bergman]

697
01:17:59,408 --> 01:18:01,143
[boy] [Bergman]

698
01:18:03,478 --> 01:18:05,614
[murmuring] [flute]

699
01:18:05,647 --> 01:18:09,184
[girl gasps] [boy]

700
01:18:10,652 --> 01:18:13,822
[Bergman] [boy repeats line]

701
01:18:13,855 --> 01:18:15,157
[boy]

702
01:18:18,193 --> 01:18:19,628
[flute]

703
01:18:23,632 --> 01:18:24,733
[Bergman]

704
01:18:50,525 --> 01:18:51,960
[murmuring]

705
01:18:57,632 --> 01:19:00,335
[woman, in English] When I was young, I wanted to be an actress,

706
01:19:00,368 --> 01:19:03,171
and I asked my mother each time I got home from school,

707
01:19:03,205 --> 01:19:06,508
"Did Ingmar Bergman call today?" And she was like, "No, not today."

708
01:19:06,541 --> 01:19:07,809
[von Trotta laughing]

709
01:19:07,843 --> 01:19:09,411
So when he actually called me,

710
01:19:09,444 --> 01:19:11,313
I thought it was a joke.

711
01:19:11,346 --> 01:19:14,816
Then he told me he wrote this Saraband part for me and I said,

712
01:19:14,850 --> 01:19:16,751
"Of course I want to be in that movie."

713
01:19:16,785 --> 01:19:19,554
And he said, "Now you're not serious."

714
01:19:19,588 --> 01:19:21,957
I was like, "What?"

715
01:19:21,990 --> 01:19:25,327
"You have to read it first. You can't just say yes."

716
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:27,295
So I ran down to the theater,

717
01:19:27,329 --> 01:19:31,633
got the script, and read it in 20 minutes or something.

718
01:19:31,666 --> 01:19:33,335
And then I called him, "Now yes."

719
01:19:33,368 --> 01:19:34,769
[both laughing]

720
01:19:56,958 --> 01:19:59,094
I knew-- When I said yes to Saraband,

721
01:19:59,127 --> 01:20:02,297
I knew that I say yes to be his instrument.

722
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:06,401
[in Swedish]

723
01:20:07,836 --> 01:20:11,907
I will use my body and my soul, to do this piece that he wants it to be.

724
01:20:11,940 --> 01:20:13,441
It's not my will here.

725
01:20:15,510 --> 01:20:17,612
[exhales]

726
01:20:30,625 --> 01:20:33,595
One day, I don't remember which scene it was, where it was like,

727
01:20:33,628 --> 01:20:35,964
"Oh, God, I want to take away those lines.

728
01:20:35,997 --> 01:20:41,069
It's too old-fashioned, but I can't tell him."

729
01:20:42,604 --> 01:20:45,941
And then I went to-- to the studio,

730
01:20:45,974 --> 01:20:48,610
and he said, "Julia, come."

731
01:20:48,643 --> 01:20:51,179
And then he said, "Let's take away those lines."

732
01:20:51,213 --> 01:20:53,815
It was like his intuition was brilliant. Oh!

733
01:20:53,848 --> 01:20:55,016
Shh!

734
01:20:57,519 --> 01:21:01,056
[in Swedish]

735
01:21:01,089 --> 01:21:02,724
[Bergman]

736
01:21:03,558 --> 01:21:04,893
[indistinct, laughing]

737
01:21:09,064 --> 01:21:10,599
[sighs, murmurs]

738
01:21:32,287 --> 01:21:35,223
[chattering, laughing]

739
01:21:35,257 --> 01:21:36,992
[Assayas, in French]

740
01:22:09,124 --> 01:22:11,226
[Dufvenius groaning]

741
01:22:13,094 --> 01:22:14,796
[grunting]

742
01:22:15,630 --> 01:22:17,766
[man grunts] [object clatters]

743
01:22:17,799 --> 01:22:20,902
[guitar strings twang]

744
01:23:08,683 --> 01:23:12,087
[in French]

745
01:23:32,474 --> 01:23:34,709
[in Swedish]

746
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:38,613
[woman sniffs]

747
01:24:47,949 --> 01:24:49,818
[sighs]

748
01:25:27,121 --> 01:25:31,593
[Carrière, in French]

749
01:25:53,248 --> 01:25:55,083
[no audible dialogue]

750
01:25:56,117 --> 01:26:00,288
[discordant music]

751
01:26:08,596 --> 01:26:11,866
[boy shouting]

752
01:26:24,245 --> 01:26:27,715
[Carrière]

753
01:26:38,626 --> 01:26:42,564
[drum vibrates]

754
01:26:42,597 --> 01:26:44,866
[discordant music]

755
01:27:09,924 --> 01:27:12,227
[Sjöstrom, in Swedish]

756
01:27:24,706 --> 01:27:27,709
-[girl] -[Sjöstrom]

757
01:27:37,418 --> 01:27:39,220
[laughing]

758
01:27:39,253 --> 01:27:42,724
[Carrière]

759
01:28:11,986 --> 01:28:13,788
[birds chirping]

760
01:28:17,358 --> 01:28:20,662
[Carrière]

761
01:28:20,695 --> 01:28:24,799
[harp plays slowly]

762
01:28:45,086 --> 01:28:48,523
[Ullmann, in English] I was in Norway, and I knew.

763
01:28:48,556 --> 01:28:52,727
"Ingmar, I think you're leaving."

764
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:54,996
And I took the airplane from Norway

765
01:28:55,029 --> 01:28:58,633
and I came and they let me in, in the bedroom,

766
01:28:58,666 --> 01:29:02,537
and there he was, and he was on his way.

767
01:29:03,137 --> 01:29:04,706
I took his hand.

768
01:29:04,739 --> 01:29:08,076
And I remember from Saraband, a scene there,

769
01:29:08,109 --> 01:29:12,480
-where the person I played came to visit my ex-husband, -Mm-hmm.

770
01:29:12,513 --> 01:29:14,549
and he says, "Why are you coming here?"

771
01:29:14,582 --> 01:29:16,984
And she says, "You called for me."

772
01:29:19,287 --> 01:29:23,524
[in Swedish]

773
01:29:50,518 --> 01:29:51,619
[sighs]

774
01:30:01,095 --> 01:30:04,532
[Russek]

775
01:30:15,510 --> 01:30:18,079
[chuckles]

776
01:30:30,458 --> 01:30:33,261
[strings play]

777
01:31:15,136 --> 01:31:18,239
[inaudible]

778
01:31:31,252 --> 01:31:32,653
[in Swedish]

779
01:31:41,596 --> 01:31:43,598
[man, in Swedish]

780
01:32:54,068 --> 01:32:56,570
[von Trotta, in English] I never think, when I'm doing a film,

781
01:32:56,604 --> 01:32:58,506
"Oh, now that is like in Bergman,

782
01:32:58,539 --> 01:33:01,008
and I have to take these, you know, moment

783
01:33:01,042 --> 01:33:04,078
and steal it from him and put it in my film."

784
01:33:04,111 --> 01:33:06,781
It happened, and people then see,

785
01:33:06,814 --> 01:33:08,649
and they say, "Oh, but that's like Bergman."

786
01:33:08,683 --> 01:33:10,151
And I didn't think about it.

787
01:33:10,184 --> 01:33:13,554
It's-It's something you're living with.

788
01:33:13,588 --> 01:33:16,791
And it comes up then unconsciously.

789
01:33:16,824 --> 01:33:18,960
And that's-- I think it's the right way.

790
01:33:18,993 --> 01:33:20,928
If you imitate, then it's over.

791
01:33:20,962 --> 01:33:23,464
Maybe we need a couple of more years on Bergman

792
01:33:23,497 --> 01:33:26,834
before we start to look back on him in a different way.

793
01:33:26,867 --> 01:33:30,671
Now it's almost like, you know, it's an old relative that have passed away

794
01:33:30,705 --> 01:33:32,740
that everybody is talking about all the time.

795
01:33:32,773 --> 01:33:34,141
You never met him,

796
01:33:34,175 --> 01:33:37,111
but you have to relate to him just because you're a Swede.

797
01:33:37,144 --> 01:33:40,881
You know the Bergman stiftelsen as it's called, Stiftung,

798
01:33:40,915 --> 01:33:43,250
they don't invite me because I'm on the other side

799
01:33:43,284 --> 01:33:45,019
of the Swedish film industry.

800
01:33:45,052 --> 01:33:48,289
I'm connected with Bo Widerberg and Roy Andersson.

801
01:33:48,322 --> 01:33:50,825
So they never invite you. They will never invite me.

802
01:33:50,858 --> 01:33:51,993
[laughs]

803
01:33:52,026 --> 01:33:54,261
So that's so beautiful when someone comes from Germany

804
01:33:54,295 --> 01:33:56,297
to interview me about Bergman.

805
01:33:56,330 --> 01:33:58,532
That would never happen in Sweden, you know. [chuckling]

806
01:33:58,566 --> 01:34:00,801
Margarethe, now you have to tell me,

807
01:34:00,835 --> 01:34:03,237
which one is your favorite Bergman movie?

808
01:34:03,270 --> 01:34:05,873
Oh, you know, well, it's not the favorite,

809
01:34:05,906 --> 01:34:09,043
but it's the first one I saw, that was Seventh Seal.

810
01:34:09,076 --> 01:34:13,714
So I saw it in Paris in the early '60s. You were not yet born.

811
01:34:13,748 --> 01:34:15,483
[chuckles] So that was the time

812
01:34:15,516 --> 01:34:19,687
when the nouvelle vague was discovering Bergman, you know?

813
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:23,324
Truffaut wrote a wonderful article about him,

814
01:34:23,357 --> 01:34:26,460
and that was the moment he became famous in Europe.

815
01:34:26,494 --> 01:34:30,398
Before, he just did his films in Sweden, but he-- Nobody knew him.

816
01:34:30,431 --> 01:34:33,634
And that was like an explosion. Yeah?

817
01:34:33,668 --> 01:34:35,870
And for me it was the first real film.

818
01:34:35,903 --> 01:34:39,874
I went to theater, to concerts, and to exhibitions,

819
01:34:39,907 --> 01:34:43,511
but film, or cinema, was not yet important for me.

820
01:34:43,544 --> 01:34:47,748
And then I saw this film, and I knew I would like to do--

821
01:34:47,782 --> 01:34:51,052
Once in my life, I would like to become a director.

822
01:34:51,085 --> 01:34:53,020
[in Swedish]

823
01:35:16,444 --> 01:35:20,614
[orchestral music]

824
01:35:29,590 --> 01:35:30,991
[water lapping]

825
01:35:52,947 --> 01:35:58,652
[orchestral music continues]

826
01:36:13,067 --> 01:36:16,871
[orchestral music continues]